“He’s played 172 games now, this is his 10th year in the NRL, he knows the game, understands situations, and he’s fortunate he’s already played in a lot of big games.

“The game is slowing down for him, and he’s getting that feel for how it plays out. He still loves it, too, and I know he’s hungry to keep improving.

“You’d like to think his combinations with guys like ‘Yeoy’ [Isaah Yeo] and ‘Dyl’ [Dylan Edwards] and Mitch Kenny will continue to grow.

“At 27, I just think he’s just starting his purple patch.

“I am so lucky to have him. He definitely makes my life easier.

“It’s also really good fun to have such a good relationship and a trusting relationship with someone who is so influential on the team, and wants to continue to get better.

“I have a similar relationship with a few of them.

“It’s easy to empower a few of the boys and let them have a say on the way we do things. Seeing that evolution of our team has been fun.”

Nathan last week refused to discuss the premiers chasing five competitions in a row, and preferred to refer to this year as the Panthers chasing “one in a row”.

That sentiment might explain why the Panthers wasted no time last week handing the Provan-Summons Trophy back to the NRL, two weeks before they started their latest title defence.

“You get the honour and memories forever, but essentially once the new season starts, you have no more rights to the trophy than anyone else – that’s the mentality we have,” Ivan says.

Many pundits are tipping Penrith to finally come back to the pack this year. We heard the same predictions last year, and the year before that.

Penrith lost the 2020 grand final and were meant to struggle the following season after they farewelled James Tamou and Josh Mansour. They won in 2021. They triumphed in 2022 after they said goodbye to Matt Burton and Kurt Capewell. They got the job done in 2023 with no Viliame Kikau or Api Koroisau. Ditto 2024 without Stephen Crichton and Spencer Leniu.

Luai has joined the Tigers, while inspirational front-rower James Fisher-Harris has returned home to play with the New Zealand Warriors.

On paper, Penrith’s team is arguably the weakest it has been since they started their dynasty.

“You could probably make a case for that,” Cleary says.

“The guys who have left [most recently], you had an elite front-rower who led basically everything we did, and one half of what was statistically the best halves pairing ever.

“Not just that, but both those guys were original members of our journey here.

“Even Sunia Turuva for that matter, his personality and what he was able to achieve the last few years … those three guys are big losses.

“Stephen Crichton was an enormous loss, and we’ve all seen what he’s done at Canterbury. Before him you had guys like Api and ‘Kiks’. They all seemed irreplaceable.

“But we’ve overcome that, and it definitely gives us hope. It’s a challenge, and that’s what it is all about.

“We still have five or six guys here who may well go on to become hall of famers at this club. Their chemistry will only improve, along with their understanding of how we play and the systems.

“We are also a development club, so we have to lose players in that sense for the system to keep rolling forward.

“It’s sad in a way when players leave, but that’s the way it goes. You have to move on.”

Cleary, who turns 54 on March 1, is signed until the end of 2027. In his book, Not Everything Counts But Everything Matters, he wrote: “I don’t have any desire to coach at another club. You never say never, but that’s how I feel right now. I don’t think I’ll coach forever – I can’t see myself being a lifer like Wayne Bennett, Craig Bellamy or Tim Sheens – but there is a strange attraction to this wild business that I might never escape. I’ll coach until I don’t feel I’m helping the team grow any more, or until someone above me feels that way.”

Pressed on that passage, Cleary said: “For me, I think about another life more than thinking about ending this [coaching] life.

“The thing with footy – I’ve done it for so long, firstly as a player, and now as a coach – your life is governed by the calendar; your life revolves around the season.

“I do think about a life where that’s not the case, and you can do other things at different times of the year. I’m also not getting any younger.

“But I still enjoy what I’m doing.

“I’ve got three years to run on this contract. That’s a long time in football. I’ll see how it goes.

“It’s a cliche, but I’m only worried about what’s happening now – I’m only worried about the Cronulla Sharks and playing well in Vegas.”

Cleary is not too concerned most of his stars, including Nathan, will face the Sharks without a trial game under their belt. Recruit Blaize Talagi has been touted as a potential replacement for Luai in the No.6 jersey, but you get the sense Vegas might come too soon for him, especially given he is still so young and recovering from a shoulder operation.

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The coach is not prepared to declare the Panthers’ glorious run is over just yet.

“I feel like we’re in as good a place as ever to be very competitive,” he says. “One thing we have been able to do over the last few years is play well in big games when it counts, and that’s a nice feeling.”

Never write off a champion.

Despite all the player departures over the years, maybe Penrith can get better. Maybe Nathan will, too.